RRCA Leaders chat about Diversity, COVID-19, Youth Running Programs, and more

Jean Knaack: diversity inclusion. it's an eight sided dice, you know, it's not a two sided coin. It's bringing younger people into leadership in the organization. You know, men, women, people of different sexual orientations, gender, race, religion. So, it's not as one dimensional. just talking about race, but we need to make sure as an organization that all populations feel included and that it's not a token effort, that's something we're also very cognizant about. Kevin Chang: Hello and welcome to the race mob podcast. This is episode number 18. I'm Kevin entrepreneur technology and fitness nerd, and the founder of race mob. I'm joined by master motivator, founder of two legit fitness co chair of the Taji 100, our RRCA certified coach USA track and field certified official. The incomparable Bertrand Newson. All right. We have some very special guests for you in today's podcast. The road runners club of America has been an extremely influential organization in the sport of running for over 60 years. It ensures some of the biggest races in the world and running clubs. They're also famous for a variety of programs, including their coaching certification kids run the nation program and the run pro clinic. We're so fortunate to have the president of the RCA, George remit and executive director, Jean knack on today's podcast. In fact gene has been named one of the most influential people in running by runner's world magazine. Alongside names such as you saying, bolt Shalene, Flanagan, and just to name a few. In this episode, you'll learn more about what the RCA is and what it does and how they've been extra busy during the pandemic. Especially since George was just named president on April 1st of this year. We have a really special discussion about the importance of diversity in running, especially in the wake of the murder of Ahmad, our worry. George and the board are on a mission to make running safer for everyone. And they're working on real change here. Plus you get to know these deeply caring, incredibly warm and very accomplished individuals. And George has been incredibly active on social media and we've been having a lot of great conversations and following his amazing adventures, including a recent 50 K up in Oregon. This episode is brought to you by RaceMob and our upcoming six week clinics. Most of us have never had a running coach. Someone who can check in on our running form, who can plan our workout schedule or to go to when we have a question. And most of us, haven't trained in a group before people to hold us accountable and celebrate with us at the finish line. That's why we've created two incredibly fun programs kicking off November 2nd. We have a foundations to running program. For those of you looking to get to the 5k distance. 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And once the door is closed, they're closed. So visit us today and secure your spot. We are so excited to welcome executive director of the RRC AIG knack and. President of the RRCA, George remit to the race mob podcast. Welcome guys. Thanks for joining us today. George Rehmet: Happy to be here. Jean Knaack: Yeah, thanks for having us. Bertrand Newson: Awesome. Kevin Chang: Awesome. Cool. Well, we know what the RRCA is, but gene, maybe you can give us kind of a general overview of what our RRCA does. Yeah. You know, that's always a big question because as an organization, we actually have a lot going on and I think probably more than most average runner realizes a lot of runners know us through our coaching certification program. But one of the big functions that we play in the sport and in our industry is we ensure most of the running events around the country. So that's a huge piece that we bring to the sport. That average runner doesn't really think about, you know, the importance of liability insurance and several other different types of insurance coverages that we offer to race directors, running clubs. Certified coaches. That is definitely a big piece of what we do provide services and benefits for the, you know, the different variety of organizations that operate within the national running community. And what atime to be executive director. Right? I mean, woo. Jean Knaack: This Kevin Chang: year Jean Knaack: has been wild, but I'm busier than I usually am kind of this time in the year. You know, usually this is a little bit of the, like, things are under control, a little bit of coasting, a lot of planning going on, but. It's been a crazy busy year to really just try to wrap my brain around what happened in March with the mass shutdown within the industry. And then just trying to navigate through it. As people are slowly trying to figure out how can we bring some events back online and. You know, with some smaller participation numbers and, you know, markets that maybe don't have nearly as, better spread issues, you know, compared to, I think some of the larger areas, but yeah. You know, even that a moving target on any given week. It seems like it's been a wild time. Definitely not a typical year. Bertrand Newson: Well, we couldn't have a better person in your role or in George's role as well. I mean, steady hand, solid direction, very good with the communication and messaging. And I filled that the running community is in good hand under your leadership. So thank you very much. Both of you. Let's talk about how our running industry changed. You know, as we look at late February into March, you know, maybe from your vantage point first Jean and then George as well. Cause you came into office in March. George Rehmet: Yeah, April 1st, I was elected into March and April 1st, April. Bertrand Newson: is everything. Jean Knaack: It was crazy because lots and lots of people were in Atlanta, Georgia for the Olympic trials marathon, which was an absolutely amazing event. We were super thrilled because Oliphant totally a book who was a grantee. The RRCA actually won the marathon trials and we provided a little bit of financial support to her in 2019 when she was battling injury and, you know, being able to provide that grant for her and then see her come across the finish line in first place was just that amazing moment. And everybody's like, yeah, 2020 is going to be awesome. I can't wait for the Olympics. You know, this is just going to be an amazing running year. And we all got home, or I think we all kind of got on the airplanes after that event and the news, like this is serious with the pandemic spread and, and, you know, people got home and then March really hit and it's like, Oh my God, this is insane. What's going on? And as you referenced, George was elected as RRCA president via online voting because we actually had to cancel our annual convention that was slated for, Portland, we were two weeks out and we had to cancel the event because the governor put a mandatory shutdown on functions over 250 people. So that was like the first of the, okay. You know, manage through that. Then we had our leadership transition through the board, which has been great. We have an amazing board of directors, so the pandemic managing through it, it makes it so much easier that it really is an amazing group of people. That they understand the sport, the organization, you know, just really kind of the crisis that we're in. And we started to see all the mass shutdowns of the races, you know, starting in early March. And I think a lot of people were optimistic, like, okay, you know, we'll take a break through March and April. Cool. And then may, it was like, can we go, can we not? And then may was like, Can't really go so much. And then people were optimistic about, okay, August, September, October, and now that we're past August into September seen, you know, a turnaround with being able to return to activity. But what I think is amazing about the sport is how quickly people were able to pivot to the virtual option. And, you know, I think that's where again, runners are incredibly resilient. They're very adaptable for the most part. psychologically physiologically. I think it was really impressive to see how people were able to pivot. And certainly there were people that were disappointed and not happy about not getting their money back. And the challenges that go along with managing through that and the education of just the whole economics of putting on a race. I feel like, you know, there's still some education that can be done out there with our consumers to have a little bit of understanding of, you know, it's not just like walking into Macy's and be like, I don't like the shirt. I want my money back. You know, that's not the way a race, is set up as a business. So, you know, that, I think. Shine a spotlight on that, the challenges, race directors face, but I'm still pretty amazed through, you know, the last six months, how much the industry has been able to just kind of pivot and find ways to keep runners engaged and give them something new to focus on. So it's not just like, you know, nobody's interacting in the sport. Kevin Chang: do you think the RRCA has kind of done in the last six months? What are some of the things that you're proudest of? Take us behind the scenes a little bit. Jean Knaack: Oh behind the scenes. You know what, if you want to know how I'm spending a lot of my time, these days, it's giving refunds back to races that didn't happen. I'm actually really proud that we're actually in a place that we can. Help give money back to our members who didn't have events. That's a really good place to be because our goal is to hopefully see that those races can come back next year. You know, we really to make all possible efforts to help raise the survive. And part of that on our side is if we can get some money back to them as they're trying to give refunds or do deferrals those types of things with their own race directors, you know, pay the t-shirt company because we know those bills came due for a lot of people that already had things on an order that I think is one of those behind the scenes, not like super sexy, but you know, still an important piece that we've, made that a priority. And then the other piece is we pivoted our coaching certification program. I mean, we had like 20 courses sold out on the, you know, on the books, on the schedule when this hit and we're like, God, what do we do? You know, like, We don't want to cancel these. So we pivoted to zoom, you know, those kind of early classes, people have the opportunity to get a refund or go to zoom. And it was a little bit of a mix. And some of the people that wanted a refund have gone through the zoom course now. And I, you know, we've probably. Done 20 of them. So we fulfilled all of those courses that we had on the schedule and we've actually scheduled additional courses through the year. So we've kind of stayed on pace with that programmatic target that we had for the year. And it's, you know, it's been amazing. We've learned a lot through that process. One of the things that I think stood out the most to me was pivoting to zoom, truly allowed us to increase our diversity in those courses, which I think is really important. We're really proud to see that because you know, not having to travel someplace, not having to get in the car, drive that type of thing, get on a plane and fly. You know, it really does kind of open it up for people to be able to sit at home and take the course. It's not like a, you know, here's a PDF, go read it, take a test. It's still very much an interactive live course, Randy Bobby Brenton carrier, you know, they, they team teach through the whole thing, 35 people that they manage on zoom for, you know, 16 hours. So, I mean, it's been really impressive how they've been able to, you know, pivot that program and. Looking to the future, we'll end up doing a mix of in person when it's safe to do so, but we'll still continue to also offer the course via zoom. So it'll just increase our ability to be able to, you know, serve people who are really interested in going through that program. Bertrand Newson: Randy was my instructor back in 2018, actually hosted a class in San Francisco at the whole time I was managing at the time a great experience and he has lot of energy Jean Knaack: Yeah, he does. He does. George Rehmet: We love Randy Jean Knaack: I spent two hours on the phone with him today. Just we do a lot of strategy, so that's it. Bertrand Newson: colorful personality and gets his messages across. Yep. So yet hold them in high regard. George Rehmet: just to add onto gene. I think when the pandemic hit, gene was really very proactive and getting guidelines. For the pandemic or group running and courses someplace fully open, you know, just to get that information out there and working with break HIPAA, Chicago area runners association as well, and information could be found if you're a race director or a runner or running [email protected]. However, too, which is, I would think a big change when we, as for working for right now is. You know, we had their murder of model. Arbery black runner murdered in Georgia. We're going out for a run. And you know, when I heard the news, I was shocked and devastated. It's like, I think, well, I'm half Asian. And I remember back in the days when San Francisco was much more white and I would get racial comments and it's like, it just triggered us like, and thinking about like my goodness, it's like, what's happening with our runners of color. Because one of our values of the RRC is the safety of all runners. So, you know, I self educated, I talked to many runners. I talked to Tony Reed, co runner and executive director of the national black marathon association. One of our state reps, Southern California, Jackie Britton. I always followed her Facebook posts and she relates her experience as being a black woman runner. So I wrote this letter to our membership and I felt like we need to protect our runners. Everybody should write it. It's liberating. It's like, I go for a run. I feel really good afterwards. And so, you know, I posted a letter, you know, and with Jean support and with the board, we're going this direction, looking at ourself as an organization, you know, to make an anti racist organization to increase our diversity and not just diversity. But when I think pacivity like everybody has a seat at the table, everybody has a chance. The ability to have a say, it's going to take a lot of work and the work is going to continue. When my term is present, it's going to be gone. And it's hard work. It's uncomfortable work, but. We had like a meeting with key figures of people, runner of color, and they were very honest and we appreciate that. And we need that honest conversation and we're working on, we're looking at our bylaws. We're looking at how we get people into leadership of the RRC as well. Kevin Chang: What are some of the things that have come out of those discussions? You mentioned maybe changing the bylaws, maybe more than diversity in the leadership group. Are there other things you think maybe come out. George Rehmet: Representation. I think that's the biggest thing. And so like running, I think it's. 92% white, 8% people of color. If we look at our country in 2050, and it's going to be majority minority country and with going representation, it's like someone can not see themselves if they don't see themselves, see other people like role models. One of my favorite social media is device diverse. We run and you know, you have different people color and it's like, just to show, and we're talking, not just people of color, LGBTQ, we have different sizes and shapes space that they were all in this sport together. And just hearing those stories. It's like people make assumptions. Just because there are certain shapes, certain color that they're not like real runner. And so I think representation is important. We've moved in that direction on our website and hopefully we're going to do more too. And I think we're seeing that as well. If we look at the latest issue of runner's world. Yeah. We had, Alyssa Monto right on there on the cover. And of course. Talking about first struggles too. And so I'm glad we're having this discussion. I think just getting that representation, having that dialogue out there too. Jean Knaack: Yeah. And to build on what George said, you know, when we first started having what I would say meaningful conversations about, being more inclusive as an organization and looking at our bylaws and how. We recruit people to the board and you know, how, how people come into the board. That's where we really identified as that's an opportunity. And, you know, my focus is you can put things on paper, you know, you can say we don't discriminate that type of thing. You know, it's just something on paper, but if you don't have intention, it's just words on paper. And so really our focus right now, as we go through this bylaw update process, which were very much like, kind of in the thick of that work, When I say I'm busier now, when this is supposed to be my coasting time of the year, you know, that's big work when you go and you'd make significant changes to an organization's bylaws. You know, that's the governing document for the organization that also then will trickle down to the organizations that are part of our nonprofit group exemption with the IRS. So that's that other little piece we play. and the industry that, you know, is it seen and isn't super flashy, but important. So, you know, we really want to make sure that future leaders and the organization understand that when we talk about being purposefully inclusive, you know, in that board recruitment process, that it needs to be a very intentional process. And so, you know, it'll take time to build what I think are like structures, policies, procedures around that, but that's part of what it will take to authentically for our organization. Be better at engaging all sorts of people. my son got me into Dungeons and dragons a few years ago and, And I was used the term diversity inclusion. it's an eight sided dice, you know, it's not a two sided coin. It's bringing younger people into leadership in the organization. It's bringing younger race directors in to replace race directors who have been doing the work for 40 plus years. You know, men, women, people of different sexual orientations, gender, race, religion. So, you know, it's not as one dimensional. I think if it's just talking about race, but you know, we need to make sure as an organization that all populations feel included in the organization and that it's not a token effort, that's something we're also very cognizant about. We do want this to be something that will make lasting change for the organization and ideally the sport. Kevin Chang: think that there is something that clubs can do? What might be some of your recommendations to clubs? Jean Knaack: We're still working on that. And I have a lot of clubs that reach out and they're like, tell us what to do. And, you know, a lot of what we've seen and heard is you'll have clubs. We'll get into the. We're just runners. We just want to run, like, it's not about race. It's not about sexual orientation. We just run a one a run. And, and I think that there's validity in that, but it's also a tool for a very long time. That's been used to shut down the dialogue about inclusivity, you know, it's they were just runners or, you know, we're running club. We just want to have fun. And it's like, yeah, fun, fun needs to be an absolute part of it. If it's not fun. You might want to second guess while you're doing it, but if you choose to lead and be okay, community leader and running, you know, it's just like training, it takes a little effort. You can't just roll out of bed and run a marathon. Right? I mean, that's what we try to teach in the coaching program. There is no five weeks to a marathon. Like that's not the way the world works when it comes to training. And so, you know, transforming organizations, making meaningful change in organizations, it's like training. It's like running a marathon. You have to put the time and effort into it to, you know, reach that end goal. And so I think a lot of clubs around the country do struggle with how do you get off the couch when it comes to having meaningful dialogue about inclusivity? And it starts with have the dialogue, have the conversation and recognize if there are those language cues that are used to shut it down, like call it out and you can call it out in a polite way. Just like I said, yeah, we're all runners, but you know, not every runner feels accepted. If they go to a group run. You know, especially if nobody comes up to them and says, Hey, you know, glad you're here. Welcome. You know, what's your pace CA you know, I'd love to run with you. You know, if you're not being intentional inclusive, if you're not making people feel welcome, you know, again, words on paper, you can say, you know, everybody's welcome, but your actions will always speak louder than what's written down. George Rehmet: Yeah, I totally agree with what Jean's saying. And I mean, it's still work the progress, but some clubs have. I started to take the initiative. I know one club in Southern California, they asked me to come in and be a moderator. So they had a zoom meeting with their club members. And I asked a couple of members express their feelings. It was an uncomfortable, I'll be honest for the members. I think I can see why they chose me because I was like a neutral person. And I think they came away better for that. I know other clubs, so I guess gene alluded to is like having people welcome them. I think a great strategy for running clubs is to have like ambassadors, you know, like at a food front or, you know, race, of course, when that comes back, it's like have key people, you know, if there's new, new somebody, new hang with them, you know, run with them, make sure they're not by themselves. Talk with them. And I think that's the way to bring people in because a lot of times. People of color come in and they're like ignored or they get the messages like, okay, get some out on it here. Some clubs have recognized that and have ambassadors as a result. Kevin Chang: Yeah, it's so interesting to me because you know, we talk all the time about how running is probably the most accessible sport in the world. It's not like football or hockey or tennis, where you need all this equipment. All you really need is a good pair of shoes and you can get out the door running, but we were just talking about. Community and creating a community. And I do think that there is this myth. I like to call it a myth that people are worried that they won't fit in. And they're probably worried about going on a group run, because they are afraid of being judged. And so if they're already feel like society is judging them, then how do you get them to. Take that first step even to come out there and, and maybe it comes down to, how do you recruit people? How do you go outside of your area? I don't know, Bertrand. Do you have any suggestions? I mean, to legit is a very diverse, one of the most diverse groups that I've seen in kind of the Bay area, at least. Bertrand Newson: Very good question. And you know, we're about 800 members here in the Bay areas, mostly centered in the San Jose, South Bay. And it's just making people feel comfortable because we've all been. That person, the first day to a new school, the first day at the new job. Okay. The first time on a new soccer team, just to take a deep breath and realize that if we are not too far, a move from that level of initial anxiety, and if you put yourself in someone else's shoes, no pun intended, then it's easier to get it in where not a bunch of. Elite, we have those team members in our group, but the great thing is those individuals are just as humble as the person going from couch to five K. And it is really about, less about the blaming and the PRS. And just more about the ability to relate to your fellow human, being your fellow teammate, and just having to comfort level in to share. So. To speak to your question, Kevin, there's no magic recipe. There's no secret sauce other than just being, treat someone as you would like to be treated, putting yourself into somebody else's shoes. And the great thing about running is the common denominator for everybody that's out there at that group run either at the track on the trail on the road, is that we're all out there to move forward. So there's an opportunity to talk and engage, you know, runners. We like to talk about what we're doing. I'm training for this? What jail are you using? What Sue's did you get? Once the ice is tapped just a little bit, that ice is going to break and then it is easy and you're not talking through, you're a Republican, you're a Democrat. You are married, you're single, you're divorced. You're Catholic. You're Protestant. It is just about the common love of staying active. And we can just bond in a different way. And that's what I love about the running community. Yes. Are we looking for it to be more diverse? Absolutely. We're very fortunate here in California to live in a very diverse community. So it's more natural, but still, you always want to treat somebody like you would like to be treated as well. Remember when your first day of school, your first day on that new team, your first day on the job, think of that. When you have someone just coming out. To your run club runners seeing you out with your group and you can see they're a little like inquisitive, and are they going to feel like, wow, I may want to learn a little bit more because you can cast off the energy like, Oh, they, you got not part of the group and just go on about your business versus stop. Have a good run, maybe clap for those individuals and then maybe share what you're up to and how, when you're going to be out the next time, there's a way that you can cast off that positive in engaging open fellowship. Community energy versus being more exclusive, more like a, this is who we are. Jean Knaack: I've found that a lot where people kind of do and some clubs get a little bit like this is what we do, and this is how we do it. And that's like, and that's where can be very challenging. People who want to see the organization be transformed, but you can hit those road blocks of, well, you know, this is what we do. This is how we've always done it. I think people need to come to terms with there's better ways to do things that just comes from good leadership and being willing to accept new ideas. You know, I think that's something that a lot of organizations struggle with. Bertrand Newson: I couldn't have said it any better. Gene being, you know, somewhere for, to me as the founder or the team captain, there is no I in team, it is about everyone else. Voice within our fitness family. And one of the best decisions that has been made as a group is to have an advisory committee when we make decisions regarding recognizing yeah, the male of the month or female of the month or a member of the year trailblazer of the year, things along those lines, maybe getting consensus on introducing a new type of gear with the logo, asking for opinion and getting feedback. So people feel that their voice is heard and they contribute to the process and the decision making. It just makes people feel more immersed in the process and you can connect when somebodies emotional bank account a little bit more versus it being at the discretion of one person. This is how we've done it. This is how it is. If you don't like it, then, you know, there are other clubs out there for you. We just don't take that approach. And I think a lot of clubs out there are more sensitive to that right now as well. And not to be territorial because a lot of runners belong to different groups. And I've seen it once so many times where, you know, you're not running are, you know, you're not wearing the, you know, like, no, you're a runner. We are already family already. That's what's important. Right here. We are all trying to outrun father time versus. You're with that group. You're with that group. And there's that sense of petition. We can compete on race day, but we're still going to give you love. Anyway, we're still going to give you high fives and attaboys and run you into the finish line, regardless on what shirt or headband you're wearing. You know, we're all part of the same community. Jean Knaack: I think that's a really important point too, is. Getting leaders in those organizations to understand it's not a us or them. It's be part of we. And it may be, we do our training on Mondays and you're looking for a Friday group or, you know, and I know that San Francisco Bay area, there's a lot of organized groups, but you can kind of go in different times that work with your schedule or, you know, if you're need a long run or, Hey, I just want to get into three miler and go grab a beer with people. I mean, I think that's, what's important is for leaders to understand, they don't have to be everything to everybody, but they can work with others in their community to say, Hey, we want to be like the sun Nate group. Or we want to be the Wednesday track group. That's going to be our focus. And so if people are looking for, you know, a Thursday long run, that's where you can create those collaborative partnerships and the community, and it becomes like. Now you're serving the runners as opposed to being serving as an entity. And I think, you know, again, that's part of mind shift that is slow least starting to happen. And you know, the running clubs around the country. Bertrand Newson: The most profound word that you said with what you just referenced. Jean was collaboration and we wouldn't be talking right now. Without that common interest, Kevin and I wouldn't have the friendship of seven years and collaborating between our two entities as a running community, without setting egos aside and looking at what can we do to bring our running community together closer in inclusion diversity, and give voices to those who may not have had that opportunity and to speak to leaders like yourselves, where we can look to connect and elevate our voices. Jean Knaack: Yeah, I'm a fan. And I think, especially as we start to emerge from the pandemic running organizations events, everybody's going to have to collaborate to be part of our. Kind of reemergence and, you know, back to where we were at the end of 2019, it's going to take everybody working together. Kevin Chang: And hopefully we come back stronger as we've alluded to before. Sometimes when you have something taken away from you, you just want it. Much more when, when you can finally have a back. We think during the pandemic, actually, a lot of people who were going to the gym who were doing, you know, other forms of fitness, they've now started to find a love for running. We've seen more and more people outdoors. And so, we're just hopeful that that is going to be the case that it'll come back even stronger and even better. Bertrand Newson: Yeah. We've seen examples of runners that miss running so much. They're getting on airplanes and flying out of state and finding live races. Right. Kevin Chang: Who would that be? Huh? George Rehmet: not an airplane. Just driving. But actually speaking about that, I think runners do care. Like last month there was an RSA Western region championship in the wake Tahoe area, the Nevada side put on big blue adventure. the moral that, 50 K and 10 miles, they were both the championships. And, the runners there, they were like, well, behave. It's like they were listening to directions. They were socially distanced. They kept their mass. They used the sanitizer because. They knew it was like, they don't want to mess this up, starting small. Like I think that's what we're going to see running. Come back as the small group runs, Citroen, runs to small community racism, but I think runners do understand what's at stake because you know, like having not done a race for five months and maybe thinking this might be the only race I'll do for another few months, it's like, I'm going to do the best I can to do my part. Make sure I don't F this up. Jean Knaack: I think that George, that is an excellent point that when we started the conversation. About runner education, you know, the masses and they are going to be just as important to bring the sport back to where it was as the race directors are. And people have to do their part. If community say you can have a race, but you know, people have to wear masks like. You gotta set, whatever your issues are aside because that's what dictates permits. And if they say, you know, everybody's gotta be masked up at, you know, start or finish or no parties like runners have to also be part of the effort to get us back going by, you know, knowing those rules and guidelines or it'll be like we've seen in other industries where. They try and then they have to come back because you know, they're not doing what needs to get done to make sure that things can safely operate not to be preachy, but George Rehmet: Good reminder. Bertrand Newson: at it. Jean Knaack: I got teenagers. I can go, mom. Bertrand Newson: The president is right there behind you. Right George, George Rehmet: I totally support jeans though. Jean Knaack: Okay. Kevin Chang: Are you enjoying the show? Help us out by sharing the podcast. You can win some cool prizes like headbands, wristbands, training programs, shadows, and more, especially if you're part of an existing running group online community, or have friends that you think will enjoy the show. Get your personal referral [email protected] slash. How did you guys get into these roles? How did you get into this position at the RRCA Maybe, maybe we'll start with Eugene. How did you get this role as executive director? Bertrand Newson: 15 years in the Kevin Chang: years. Jean Knaack: years ago, Kevin Chang: That's George Rehmet: years this month. Jean Knaack: I used to have kind of an obnoxious comment to that question. I was dumb enough and cheap enough. So take the job. And I say that because I actually took the job at a time, the organization was going through what is very much considered an institutional midlife crisis. The organization was not quite 40 years old at the time, but it had split apart because of some infighting. And then before I came on, they brought these two us entities back together. They'd done a bunch of bylaw changes. There was still kind of some holdover from the animosity of changes that happen. And when I took the job with the organization, I recognized with my degree in nonprofit administration, there was really no place to go, but up, you know, it was like sink or swim, you know, that was it. And, you know, just got involved and again, yeah. And there were some very challenging board members on the board at that time, but the majority of the board were extremely supportive and very supportive of the change, just that I saw that needed to happen at that point in time. And so, you know, they just really stood by me and we kind of got through like the first couple of years where. Definitely challenging, but you know, kind of move beyond that midlife crisis to think, getting to a place where we could really invest time and effort in programs. And to me, that's, what's been the most exciting about, you know, the last 10, 11 years is we've been very programmatically focused, you know, with almost no infighting. And I think when you really can focus on the mission of an organization, that's what inspires people to be involved. So. I'd come out of grad school. I had two teeny, tiny little kids at the time. It was a good match for me as a, a trap lead and you know, my academic background and professional interests. But yeah, I can kind of say it jokingly now about the dumb enough and cheap enough. Cause I know what the person before me was making and I was hired in it less than what he was making. There is that, but we've solved that issue. Kevin Chang: What are some of the programs that you're proudest of? Jean Knaack: All of them, all of them, you know, I'm certainly very proud of the coaching program. That one did predate me. So that was a preexisting program, but just what we've been able to do with that program, especially since Randy came on as the director of education. I mean, it's, it's really has just become a signature program for the organization. The other program that I'm also very proud of is our kids run the nation program. What makes me proud of that one? We do provide funding for people that are starting programs, where they want to grow programs that are predominantly school-based. when we get those grants, we're looking at title one schools. We're looking at programs that serve diverse populations. We've granted a lot to why MCA afterschool programs, boys and girls clubs. We've given to some programs that support kids that are stationed overseas with their parents. so there's a program at Japan at the base, the U S based there in Japan that we. Granted to that program. We've granted to some small programs on tribal lands in Alaska, a lot of things that we've done through that program. And our biggest message with that program is it is a gender inclusive program because I don't think kids should go out in the playground and be separated. Girls, go run here, boys, go run there. You know? I believe running is an inclusive sport and that's a huge message for our program is like, if you do it, like all the kids should come and they should all run and they're all running together and, you know, just fostering that love of running. So that's a program I'm really proud of. And Erica gunmen scan our office. I know we've referenced a few other staff people. She manages that program along with the admin side of the coaching program. So, you know, she does an outstanding job with that. Kevin Chang: Phenomenal, George, give us your background. B and I heard a little bit about it, but yeah, we'd love for the audience to hear. George Rehmet: I don't think Jane has heard how I got into ours. So let's see. Back in 19 Oh 1998, I met my girlfriend later, became my wife, married Dale. And of course the first day I took her on was escaped from Alcatraz triathlon, which I was competing fast forward. One year later, I talked to the race director because I wanted to propose to my wife. And so I complete the triathlon and then, you know, on stage and the race director calls and my girlfriend over a very outcome, come on out. George has something to say to you. So I get down in these profiles. She said, yes, da. few years later, joke's became president by running club, dolphins, health, and runners. And at that time in 1999, they needed a new state rep in central California, which has pretty much debate area because of the density of running clubs there. And I think Joe remembered me. I guess what I did was kind of Getsy I guess it's I stood out in some way. And so he recommended me to the regional director then, and she interviewed me and I got the job and yeah, it was wonderful to see all the different running clubs to the diversity of them. And I realized after my first national RSA convention, I said, ah, this is what the organization is all about. And so their state representative for the RC is think of it as like an ambassador representing the national office, but also representing the local running clubs or States, California has three state rests because of its size. And so, I did became outstanding state rep the following year. And then I stepped down because of when somebody else to have a chance. Jean Knaack: The mid-life crisis years George Rehmet: I just had other things on my plate. And then of course the San Francisco running clubs wanted to, have, our seeing national dimension. And so the previous state rep wasn't up to it. So I became the convention director and. Step back into state rep again, and the convention was a big hit. Jean was there. She was having a good time, I think, as like realizing what conventions are about. And then over time, a few years later, I just got asked to run for being Western region director got elected. Was that for a few years and then asked to run for president. And of course, here I am right now. I guess when I first became state rep, I'd never thought I'd be the president of the RRCA. So I'm very honored and it's wonderful to work with Jean. And one thing too, just to clarify, like Jean represents the RRCA, I represent the board and we have our support for Jean and as president, I set the policy, for example, With diversity inclusion issue the direction. That's why I want to take. And Jean is like, you might say that my store like implementing it. and I think one thing too, like thinking about RSA programs is we have scholarships for runners, but also the run pro camp where like you have these runners who are in college and they're about ready to leave college to get this education. like what does it mean to be a professional runner? So they get like speak, you know, people in the industry and say here's the reality of it. And I think it helps. Those writers make a very informed choice and because you know, that's are done from college, they're pretty much left on it. And so I've been to one run pro camp, and I think that's another great service that the RSA does provide and that, you know, Jean should be proud of. Yeah. Kevin Chang: What is RRCA provide for the, those runners that are about to turn, bro? Jean Knaack: It's an interactive camp. So we bring an application process that people who've graduated from college or they've finished their NCAA eligibility. They can apply to come to the. Camping. We really look at the people who do end up coming, that we look for an eye of. Do they have, you know, kind of natural talent and work ethic to move to that next level of really being a professional athlete they're right at that emerging elite or, you know, some of the people that had come to run pro camp in previous years, I want to say it was in 2016, that two people came to camp, but they'd run the Olympic trials several months before on the track. And they were like, wow, I really wish I would have had this information before I went to that because you know, you learn a lot, obviously if you're going to go run a track, meet like the Olympic trials. Straight out of college, but you know, that was very reinforcing for them to kind of say, I wish I knew, you know, knew then what I now know now from the camp. So, you know, it really is that positive reinforcement that we get from the athletes. And, you know, what's been great too, is we really see the people that. Come through camp, they're staying in the sport and you know, they're, they're really performing well, the national level, kind of pandemic, but you know, I see a lot of them on social media. Like they're training really hard now. I think you can tell a lot of them are. Gearing up for, you know, running the distance races on the track. You know, when that time comes, cause people, you know, that have been through camp, like a lot of them are, their fitness looks really great putting in the time they're putting in the miles, they're not racing. So probably not. Quite as injured as you, what if you're doing a lot of racing, but it is, it's a really, it's a neat program and it's small. Like we don't bring 40 people through, you know, it's 15 to 20 people, but they're the ones who we really see. They have really kind of the best opportunity to, you know, take their running to that next level. Kevin Chang: And you said it's a camp. So is it multiple weeks? What do you think are the biggest things that they're learning? Jean Knaack: It's about a day and a half, we fund their travel. So we usually do it at a hotel by our national office in Arlington. You know, the big thing is we bring in agents like how we cuff Leschi, who is Meg's agent, you know, he's spoken for many years. And Chris mangle, who also represents a lot of athletes. He's spoken quite a few times as well. And so they talk about the importance of having an agent, what an agent does for you. Some of the pitfalls that you can run into, if you don't have an agent, you know, they try and give that perspective. When do you get an agent? Because you might not necessarily need one right out of college, but you know, if you start winning some big races and you have some of the brands that are interested in you. So we talk about that. We always have somebody from USADA, the USA anti-doping agency come and they talk about drug testing. And you know, a lot of them are tested in college, but it's almost a deeper dive because when you get to that professional level, there's a little bit more of personal accountability when it comes to the drug testing process, because, you know, in college, everything is taken care of for you. And that's a lot of what we talk about too at run pro campus. Like there's no coach there to take care of you to pick your races. You know, like it's a little bit of how do you, how do you pick and choose don't run every race cause you don't have to, like you do in college. So we also tell them, we're like, look, if you just graduated, take a year and heal up, you know, you kind of beat yourself up for four years. Like it's okay. We do talk a lot about the long game, especially in the marathon, because most marathoners don't really hit their peak until the late 20, early thirties. And so we're like if you're 22 and you're telling yourself, you're giving it a year to make it big as a pro runner, like your mind's not in the right place, you know? And we talked too about the importance of having a job. Because you can't have running be the only thing in your life. You know, that's where I think people get maybe some mental health issues creep in. When you know, you have a singular pursuit and you have nothing. So we do talk about that a lot. We have a month, well health expert that has come and spoke the last few years. And that's. That's been very well received. People have really kind of appreciated that dialogue. And we talk about personal finances, you know, how do you manage Germany? You know, get that job, pay for that living. What do you do with your prize money when you get it? Yeah. And you know, there's a story that one of the elite athlete coordinators likes to tell that there was an athlete who he wanted prize money. And he proceeded to go out and buy really expensive alcohol and drank it all in his room. He literally drank his whole prize earnings through, you know, expensive alcohol in his room, like slept through his alarm, missed the shuttle back to the airport, missed his flight. So he wasn't invited back to the race that, you know, the previous year. So it's, you know, it's like be responsible with your prize money. Don't go, you know, blow it on a big party for all your friends, that kind of thing. So, you know, it's really a lot kind of the fundamentals of life after college. Kevin Chang: Yeah, I wish I had a life after poetry and some of us need that. Jean Knaack: I think we all did right. Bertrand Newson: And Jean and your time, what are some of maybe two or three biggest changes outside of the pandemic that you've seen in the running industry? Jean Knaack: do think social media was a huge, interesting game changer for the sport of running, because it was so predominantly. Print media focus. You know, you had running time, you had runner's world, women's running, came along and then after a while, advertisers, I didn't really want to pay for print. They were going very all digital. And that was hard because you had these kind of longterm stalwarts in the sport. And how people talked about the sport and what people cared about, you know, for a long time, it was, it was kind of like the fast running and then the, you know, the importance of that recreational runner, like really became think even more important compared to even the eighties, you know, when you kind of had more women coming into the sport, it's like every aspect of social media in our life. There's some really good things, gangs and some not so good things that have come out of it, as a vehicle, but. I feel like that's been really kind of fascinating to see how that's changed, like the media, how people communicate, how they learn about races, how people pick races. I also find too, I don't think this is a good thing, but like some of the scams that have occurred where, you know, people put up scam races. Like they put up a registration site and kind of a scam website and take money and then be like, there is no race. Like you realize that you're an industry doing well when people run a scam through your industry, right? Like that's, it's a weird, it's a weird kind of Mark of success, but it is when an industry is doing well. You're going to have opportunities that come in. Again, it comes back to consumer education. Like, you know, we put some buyer be aware, tips out there about, be smart about how you pick races, you know, just because somebody threw up a website does not mean that that's a legit race or a safe race. I think consumers, they have become more educated. I would say probably in the last five, 10 years, as you know, we ran into some of those issues, but social media is definitely, yeah. Been a really interesting game changer within the sport. Bertrand Newson: George had same question for you. George Rehmet: The growth of trail running is a big one too, in the RC. I mean, even though we say road runners, club of America, we do support the trail racist insurance as well. And so I think people are connecting back to nature. I know for a while, Time. I was a road runner. And of course I think what made me switch to trail running is as I've gotten older, I've gotten slower. And I think also, okay, maybe new challenges, like going far or ever arresting, getting as much vertical climb as you can. And so I think that's one of the biggest changes I've noticed in my time, my high school day since 1981. Bertrand Newson: You know, that reminds me of a story that's used, shared with us when you're going from, I think, junior high to high school in the city. And tell us about the cross country story. George Rehmet: Yeah, how I got into running. So back in my day, My folks used to take me up to Tahoe for skiing. So my first day of high school, freshman year, you get beat up by the sophomores and you lose your check for your textbook. Not afford to get the first day. And now it's been, comes on and says, Oh, CrossCountry meeting rooms. So selling them, wow. Cross country, cross country skiing. I'm in San Francisco. I'll see how they figure that. Yeah. So after school I go into a room and I realize it's running, but I see like, The sophomore suit. I went to school with in middle school and there were geeks like me, so, okay. Well, if they're geeks like me, maybe this is for, so I hung in there with there. I'll be honest. My freshman year I finished almost dead. Last sophomore. I finished in the middle, junior. I finally made varsity and last for last meet and got most improved and then, uh, finish out senior, got most inspirational runner. And I think just having that oranges. Seeing that growth, I mean, really sent me for being a runner for life. I'm a teacher, in a mental health facility for kids. Yeah. And so it's, it's very challenged, but as like a, it's a good outlet. If I have a bad day at work, I'll have a great time on the track. Or count later on that afternoon. And so that's how I got into running. And for the most part been running ever since then, you know, dabble in the triathlons, I mean running is my first love open water swimming is my second love. Bertrand Newson: When you say outlet or maybe an escape. I mean, how many times have you escaped from Alcatraz? George Rehmet: I've done it 125 times. Most of it, I would say 70% of it without a wetsuit. Yeah. And actually I start made this I'm a member of a special club. There's only two of us. We've run either a hundred marathons or longer ultras and done a hundred Alcatraz swim. So only one or two people that do that. I'll be honest. It's like when people approached me and I said, well, I've done like 150 marathons and ultras. And then I said, I've done 125 advertised swims and they go, they're more fascinated with the Alcatraz winds. Bertrand Newson: Yeah, we should just take the Jean Knaack: Right. Exactly. Bertrand Newson: now. I mean, Jean Knaack: not worthy. Bertrand Newson: Thank you everybody. Thanks for coming. That's your hot popcorn moment right there. This is what you're doing or where to go. Press Kevin Chang: Jeans, no slouch either. I mean, jeans wearing the iron man's shirt right now. Jean Knaack: You know what, it's funny. I swam in college, you know, to question of how do you get into running? And so I swam in college a little bit, was not a high performer. I kind of peaked in high school as a swimmer. I think. There's a lot of distractions in college when you're trying to be a student and an athlete. and I didn't do either of them terribly. Well, my friend. Bertrand Newson: Kevin, are you ready? This is where you like to go. And like, can you, why don't you deal? Dig in, drill down a little bit. We'll just Jean Knaack: Okay. Kevin Chang: Well, we might leave that Bertrand Newson: We'll keep it moving. Moving. Jean Knaack: I laugh because you know, as many times as churches swim Alcatraz and I love swimming and I'm like, there's no way I could never do it, but I was always a sprinter. You know, it was not. Not really into that long course stuff until I think 2007 was my first iron man. So I quit swimming and I'd seen the broadcast of the iron man, you know, in the fall when I was in college. And I'm like, that looks awesome. I want to do that someday. You know, it only took about 10 years later to get there, but, but it was always kind of there. and I started doing triathlon in my early twenties and I was like, Oh, if I kind of put a little bit time and effort into the running thing, I could be a better triathlete. And I, I did put a little more time and effort into the running thing and started placing in my age group Solomon. So that was a lot of fun, you know, and then this, that this job came along. And I was like, Oh, you know, I really need to put some time and effort into the running thing to, you know, to be legit. Yeah. Right. Get the actual street credit. I'll tell you at the end of a marathon when you're like, why don't we tell people to do it? And we all know, and then you finish that thing and you're like, that was awesome. Next time I'm going to train a little harder and you know, I can't wait to do it again. So, yeah, you know, got into triathlon. My husband has done five iron mans, so we're, we've always been very supportive of each other, you know, that's, that's important when you're doing that kind of training, that kind of time, that kind of distance, you know, it helps a lot to have your partner, you know, understand what you're doing. cause he's suffering, you know, right along with me. And you know, we did quite a few of them together, but he, he did some on his own. Bertrand Newson: And you've traveled internationally. Correct? You've traveled out of the country, completed an Ironman. Jean Knaack: I did. I did iron man France. it's almost like 10 years ago now. It makes me feel old, but that was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done. It's a really hard, very hilly mountainous course. The bike stage has been a mountain stage tour of the tour de France. It's no joke. It's no joke. There are times when I'm like, I felt like just a little old lady on a beach cruiser going so slow up those mountains, you know, maybe at nine miles an hour, but you'd see these like super, super fit guys that were just, you know, they were done. They were getting on the sag wagon, halfway up the mountain and I'm just like, yay, slow and steady. I finished. I, you know, I finished that one and that took a little time off and went back and did Coeur d'Alene. And, you know, I will say I DNF to my last attempt, but it happens. Kevin Chang: Fever race either triathlon or road or trail. Jean Knaack: One of my most recent favorite races is I was out in San Francisco last year in April. And it was the first time my kids had ever been out to the San Francisco Bay area. And it was their spring break. So we, my husband, myself and my two kids, we came out and ran the Presidio 10. Yeah, my husband and my son ran the 10 mile and my daughter and I ran the 10 K. That was just, I mean, that was a great race. I've always loved that race. I've done it a few times, but to like, be out there with all four of them and they all did the race and actually it was just tonight at dinner. My son was like, I can't wait to go out and do that race again. I'm like, that's what you want to hear. Right. As a mom, like they kind of get it. I've done a ton of races. It's so hard to pick. What's my favorite. I really love doing races out in California as an East coaster. Cause you know, you're rolling out of bed at like 9:00 AM your body clock time, time and Bertrand Newson: Oh, sure. Right? Yeah. Not the same Kevin Chang: Yeah, I know. Bertrand Newson: Marine Corps marathon or, you know, Miami marathon. Yeah. I know Chicago. Jean Knaack: I think most of my favorite races I'm like, yeah, they're there they're West coast races. Bertrand Newson: And how about yourself, George? George Rehmet: my favorite is Napa Valley marathon. It's several reasons. Why is. They've been really strong supporters of the RRCA when they've been national championship. And when Jean and VI have been there, they really take good care of us. But actually, one reasons, the big reason is it's like, it's the race where I broke three hours for a marathon in 1999, after eight years of trying. But a little bit more before that. The year before my dad had passed away and I had a serious foot injury and I was in a teaching position that was just awful where I was just stressing out. So I signed up for the race and I hit the halfway point. I'm 30 seconds behind pace. And then I'm hitting mile 20. And just to let you know, Calistoga, Napa Valley, my dad used to take me there. To like the resource. And so I was running, I always like to run bike there. So mile 20, here's your, when you hit the wall? I somehow, I guess maybe since my father was there or something, I got this burst of energy. And so instead of fading, you know, I was able to maintain my pace and like, You know, saw the finish line and it came in under two 59, 12. And so, you know, with Napa Valley, when I run it, you know, even though slower, I, it brings back happy memories with my dad and just that achievement as well. And again, folks, there is some like with race organizers, it's like a family reunion. Jean Knaack: So that where you did your hundred, your hundredth marathon, was there a couple of. Years ago. Yeah. George Rehmet: Yeah, the hundredth marathon. And, maybe when you get back, maybe my 200 thumb at one 51 right now. So. It's great organization. They give back to the local community and the current race director, Michelle, without one, the few female race directors. She does a great job. They added a half marathon as well. So, yeah, that's my favorite again, like Jean it's, like I've run tons of races if you say, well, what's your favorite trail is I could give you that answer too and so forth. And. Kevin Chang: Go ahead. Yeah. Favorite show race. George Rehmet: My favorite trout race. I would say, let's see, it's no longer around, it was the grand Canyon marathon and they only had it for two years. So I had a conference in Arizona, so. Got it early, drove all night stuff in my car next day. And then we start on the rim, went along the rib and then I went through the forest and finished at the gateway. And of course it was like community. Like there was 150 volunteers and 65 runners just running along the grand Canyon. And it's just the immensity of nature. It's like, I think that's one thing why when to trail riding too, it's just, it's just the nature. Like it, my vitamin N so. It's just something calming about it and just it's like, yeah, just the meds. It's like, wow. Nature Cray to that. It's hard to compete with human kind billing phase. Kevin Chang: How can people get involved if they want to get involved with RRCA or want to help you guys out or want to connect with you guys? What's the best way to go ahead and do that. Jean Knaack: Well, I think there's several different ways. One, I think a great opportunity is for people to connect with the RRCA state representative and their state. Cause that's just a great. Way to kind of get an understanding of what's going on in the local running community offered to help out. You know, when, when get back to racing, it's just great to have a presence at races that we support and, you know, one person can't be everywhere all over a state. So being willing to kind of step up and help them out, as well, that's a great way to. To get engaged, especially locally. when we have vacancies for state reps, that's another great way to get involved is step up and volunteer and, you know, look at those programs that we offer, because that's another way that you can lead and a local running community while using the tools that we've provided, especially with our kids run the nation program, getting that going in a school community center. Wherever people, you know, operate and also going through the coaching program is another great way to kind of get involved and engaged in a VR as well as being a leader in a local running community. George Rehmet: Yeah, I like that too. It's like, if you're like an officer running club, it's like when the pandemic sober, like definitely go to NRC national convention right now there's webinars that's on, you know, sign up when you can, because it is limited. I totally agree with Jean, like check in with your local state rep for me, you know, if you want, love to talk with you guys, folks there. I think if you're just. You know, a runner, maybe you're not an officer, maybe try to get more involved because I think that our state is a grassroots organization. And like one of the things that worries me is when I go to a club and the officers have been there for a longest time. And I think if you're a runner running club, find out how you give you more involved. I mean, volunteer, but maybe, Hey, maybe try being officer or take on a special position because. You know, running clubs are primarily run by volunteers and, you know, I think they would appreciate the help too. So I think that's a big thing I would say to my fellow runners is just really checking with your club officer that, Hey, what can I do to help out? And, but be honest too, about your limitations as well, because running should be fun. Fortunately, I've come across clubs where people starting to hate it. And like I say, well, hello, you're, you're volunteering. You know, this should be fun. So you gotta have that balance. Kevin Chang: Thank you guys so much for joining us on this podcast. I mean, it was fantastic to both meet you guys. Size and be able to chat about what our CA's two and the future of the RRCA. So if you guys ever need anything from us, we're happy to help, happy to pitch in, happy to have discussions or chat about anything. And we just want to thank you guys for your time. It's been amazing. Jean Knaack: Yeah, this has been awesome. And thank you guys. It's been a lot of fun and you know, definitely appreciate the conversation. So I look forward to, you know, the, the final podcast. George Rehmet: Yeah, totally. It's been fun. Bertrand and Kevin, and hopefully when the pandemic stone would love to come down and see you guys and just run with you and hang out with you. And you know, when Jean comes over, Jean Knaack: I know I can't wait to get on a plane and fly back over. I graduated from high school in Danville. So San Francisco is kind of, Bertrand Newson: yeah. Jean Knaack: so you know, a little bit of a hometown connection there slightly. George Rehmet: Maybe that's why she wanted me president. So she could come in and Jean Knaack: Right. Kevin Chang: Come visit. Jean Knaack: supposed to be the excuse we needed quarterly meetings in person in California. Bertrand Newson: advice that you'd like to give the running community in regards to the pandemic things that we should be doing so we can ensure we emerge out of this closer and a healthier running industry. Jean Knaack: Have some patients, you know, 12 months feels like a long time, but in the grand scheme of life, it's not that long. And do your part to help protect others, to prevent this spread of the disease. So wash your hands, wear your mask, be a good public steward of your fellow citizens. George Rehmet: I'm 100% with Jane. However, I would say too, during this pandemic use this time to fly different things. As like a for example, I did the one of the 100,000 foot vertical challenge, Leadville vertical challenge. You know, there are a lot of climates, so that was a nice thing to do, you know, the virtual racist as well. maybe trying different techniques, maybe try cross training for example, or. Maybe you've tried different workout. I mean, because there's no need to sharpen yourself for a race at this point. So I always say, go ahead and explore, take this opportunity to do that. Unless there bad Kevin Chang: Yeah, I know we're stuck in doors George Rehmet: sucking doors, I've been reading books about writing. So Jean Knaack: on your flexibility and your core strength inside, George Rehmet: that's what I've been doing on my indoor cycling. And then after that weights and core. Bertrand Newson: you say poor, like beer George Rehmet: Oh, that's it. Kevin Chang: Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the race mob podcast. Check out all of the show notes or find a running buddy online at dot com. Please subscribe to us on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts and leave us a review until next time. Keep on moving.